Story Sent in by John:
Susan had two weeks of emails to let me know the following important piece of information but she decided to tell me when we sat down to dinner on our first date: "I don't sleep with people in the first year."
"The first year?"
She nodded, "I just want to make sure they're not after that one thing."
I asked, "What if things are going really well? I know some couples who've started living together before the end of their first year together."
"I'd do that with the right guy. I just wouldn't sleep with him."
As it looked like this would be our only date, when the check came I suggested we split it.
She looked genuinely shocked. "Oh... okay... I'll have to visit an ATM. I didn't realize..." she said. There wasn't going to be a second date so I saw no problem in having her pay her share. No messing around for a year and I'm expected to fully pay for dinner? Is this the 1950s?
She went to an ATM and returned with cash. She calculated out to the penny how much she owed including tax and tip, left precisely that amount, and left before I even had a chance to say goodbye.
Raise your hands if you think OP was after "only one thing".Also raise your hands if you think Susan should of walked right pass the atm and out the door.Yeah,yeah,I know it's not up to the guy to pay for the dinner but the way he handled things and what he admitted was caddish.OP was expecting a goodbye,how rich.You would think Susan would be used to this reaction,not surprised...and girls,carry some cash in those purses or else wait till the date is over and done with before you let the guy know there will be no expected desserts...:::shakes head at both:::
ReplyDeleteWhat exactly did he handle the wrong way? Asking to split the check? Isn't that what people do nowadays?
DeleteAnd yes, I'd expect a "good bye" as well as that's common courtesy. You don't demand from people to say hello and good bye but not saying it is rude. Actually expecting from the guy to pay for the dinner is rude, too, at least if he didn't say that he'd invite her beforehand. At least she could have been prepared to pay for her own food.
Her "I don't sleep with guys in the first year" strikes me as a childish game, especially with the explanation she gave. That's rude, too. From my point of view the OP dodged a bullet.
*Hand raise* Guys go into dates expecting sex and girls expect meals to be paid. Both think they're sly.
DeleteFor the sake of argument I'd assume he invited her, only because he spoke of emails (probably a dating site find so typically he asks to meet) so nothing strange in expecting someone who invites you out to pay.
DeleteAs for not doing the deed before a year...I may not follow that rule but that on its own isn't so strange. She certainly could have mentioned it before they met. All in all I'm much more rolling my eyes at OP.
Both hands down. Not sleeping with someone for the first year is completely this woman's prerogative, but expecting her date to be happy with it and buy her dinner is a fantasy. A lot of guys aren't just interested in "One Thing" on a first date but it is definitely factored into the equation. OP decided that she wasn't worth the wait and she had to know that was a possibility. Glad he made her pay for her share and her not saying goodbye was petty.
DeleteNo Sascha,the only reason why OP wanted to split the check was because he stated that it was because he was not getting any.In other words if the date did not drop the no sex for a year bombshell on Op he would of paid for the date.Both of them had expectations but the date's was a very high expectation.I have always offered to split the check or even pay the full check but the guy always insisted.In return I would give a gift such as a nice bottle of scotch or such.I don't like meal whores or guys that expect something in return so I shake my head at both.We don't know who made the dinner plans but usually if a man asks a woman out and makes the plans then I can see why the woman might think he will pay for it.By his words,it seems like he had intended to pay for dinner until he found out access was denied.
DeleteMelanie: He said he saw no reason to pay for the meal because he didn't see their relationship go anywhere. Yes, part of the reason is that she said "no sexy time for a year". He never said that he'd expect her to have sex with him that night.
DeleteAs I said, her saying "no sex for a whole year" strikes me as childish. She is playing games and putting herself onto a pedestal, testing people. Relationships are quite unique and no relationships is like the other. And yes wanting to have sex is one reason to be in a relationship. He even asked "what if it's going really well?" - relationships have their own dynamic and having strict rules like that chokes a relationship to death in my eyes. Come on, a whole year? How would you behave if somebody told you "yeah, no sex for a whole year, simply because I'm testing you"? Would you want to be together with a person like that? Heck, their relationship, even if he was OK with moving forward with it, might not even last that long.
He might have paid for dinner if he felt like the was any sense in seeing her again. That the reason was that she didn't sleep with him that night is totally your interpretation and not what he wrote.
OP and his date were looking for two very different arrangements. It's good that they discovered this early instead of letting things get to a point where one/both feels used.
ReplyDeleteI am a strong believer in the "you invite me places then you pay for it" theory of etiquette. As such we are missing an important piece of information -- who invited whom out to dinner. Considering the larger question: "who here is being a jerk?" My vote is for the OP. His expectations are premised upon a cultural norm (sex sooner not later) that he should not be placing upon his date. Why? Because he doesn't know her at all! The purpose of the first date is to meet her and get to know her, if you don't like who she is that's fine, don't go out again. But to condition whether you are paying or not on whether you think there will be sex within a year is a jerk move.
ReplyDeleteFirst off, I don't think inviting someone out means automatically that you are picking up the check; especially not on a first date.
DeleteSecondly, I don't think the decision to not pay for her food was as simple as "You're not going to have sex with me so I'm not paying for your food!". They both had different ideas on how a relationship should go that didn't match up. No different than one person saying they want to have kids and the other doesn't. When that is the case and there will clearly be no second date, each person should pay their own way.
Thirdly, EXPECTING someone else to pick up the check for you is a dick move. People need to be prepared to pay their own way on a date, especially if you are planning on dropping some unconventional bomb on your date and just expecting them to roll with it.
I think OP handled things just right. I can't tell you how many dated I went on and paid for the food knowing there would be no second date. I regret every one and wish I had done things more like the OP.
Ah, yes,,, sounds like ol' Archie encountered the wild Dinner Wh0re in her natural habitat a time or seven. Alas, I know them well...
DeleteMost typical dates went something like this: I suggest an activity of some sort. Girl nixes that idea, in lieu of having dinner at some moderately-priced restaurant instead. Trying to make a good first impression, I'd agree. Girl then spends the entire dinner telling me about the other guys that she's hooking up with, but is unsure of how to proceed, since they are "bad boys" or single dads, and she's not ready to be a mother, etc. (lulwut?) Or perhaps she'd rant about how there are NO good guys to be found online (present company NOT excluded, it would seem to be implied). Hell, I WISH a girl told me I had to wait a year, because at least then it would have at least been a POSSIBILITY to eventually smush.
So, after this sparkling conversation, when the check came, the girl would invariably make no offer to pay. At first, I didn't really mind, since I was kinda raised old-fashioned. But after a bunch of times, I began to see that I was encountering a new species - the Dinner Wh0re, and had to adjust accordingly, such as doing "first meets" at coffee shops instead of first dates, etc.
And that's how Steve became the bitter, jaded curmudgeon that is universally beloved throughout ABCD. Thankfully, since I'm old/fat/bald/married now, it doesn't really hinder my life in any way... :-)
I will admit (as I think that I tried to do in my initial comment but language and meaning are tricky) that my whole argument is premised upon an understanding (you invite me, then you pay; I invite you, I pay) that is not a cultural norm. If we accept that "I invite you out, I pay" as a first premise then OP is a jerk because he wanted to get to know her until he didn't like what he learned and then he broke the implicit promise.
DeleteThe problems with my argument are twofold: 1) not everyone agrees with the "I invite, I pay" rule so unless that's stated up front there is no agreement and I have no right to hold OP to it; and 2) we still are not positive who invited whom, so even accepting the rule it may not apply to OP at all.
So, if you accept all my hypothetical facts overlaying what we do know, then I am right. Of course, if everyone is willing to do that, I want to add some additional made up facts; these are: 1) I could play professional hockey (if I wanted to), 2) I am very cool, and 3) I am not a lawyer. Please be guided accordingly.
That was some seriously impressive maneuvering Bob.
DeleteDammit, I had a really great reply to add to this comment (*mostly* to Steve). But you work for 20 hours straight and you forget that you even had an independent thought and then you log in and tell yourself you have to be the early bird, where the hell was I going with this?
DeleteWell, whatever. I happen to agree with Bob, but as a Perpetual Spinster(TM), I absolutely know better than to ever go on a date (especially a first date) without a means of payment and absolutely would never let the check arrive without sincerely offering to pay for my half. But I think it says a lot when the person who did the inviting pays, about their character and their background, and also gives some insight into how they feel the date is going.
But again, I'm a Perpetual Spinster(TM), so maybe don't take my opinions too seriously.
Also, I feel like maybe I settled for my screen name. It totally should have been Perpetual Spinster(TM).
While the arbitrary period of 1 year is silly, I agree with waiting awhile before hopping into bed with someone. I kinda wish more people were like this girl, TBH. Don't get me wrong, I like sex... I just don't like OTHER people having sex...
ReplyDeletewhat I have to say about the sex:
ReplyDeletethat girl knew it'd turn most men away and is probably why she waited until they met. The guy was well within his right to end the date and ask for splits because he knows himself well enough to know he couldn't handle waiting an entire year for sex. They didn't match, and that's that.
what I think about the split:
if someone says "I want to take you on a date," I then assume I'm being TAKEN on a date and am thus not expected to pay. If, and I did this as often as I experienced the former because go equality, I told a guy "let's go out to eat and chill," I then assumed >I< was the one who needed to pay. If we both agreed to go out without anyone explicitly saying it was their idea, I always offered to split.
to me, paying isn't about "it's the guys responsibility" but rather the responsibility of the person you wanted to take the other on a date. you're taking them on a first date! it just seems the right thing to do. So ladies, if you are the one who suggested the date, pay up.
Let's be clear: I want to take you on a date. But only because it's YOUR idea.
DeleteIt's a controversial one! I'm with team OP on this one.
ReplyDeleteIf going on a date, can't expect the bloke to pay everytime for you, especially if there's a chance that things might not work on such an important thing as when is the appropriate moment to have sex...
I don't like casual sex, I don't like the idea of casual sex and I can perfectly understand one wants to wait to make sure the relationship is serious before engaging in more intimate stuff, but an arbitrary limit of ONE YEAR? I got married after 8 months of dating! This is awfully long.
Of course, it's the girl's right to decide when is the right time and I wish her all the best to find a man ready to oblige.
I agree with you on most points. There are far more tactful ways of turning down sex than outright stating an arbitrary limit, especially on the first date. Personally, I would take it as a round a bout way of saying that I was too ugly and I'd probably resent them enough not to want a second date, certainly enough to want to split the check.
DeleteSomeone here must know Dan Savage. Can we land him as a regular in the comments?
ReplyDeleteSomeone, please make a fake account (I'm thinking Savage Dan).
DeleteI'd settle for Wolfdreams coming back...
Delete... Or Howie Feltersnatch...
DeleteI miss Fizziks, Nikki, and Nom. Also Katie Girl, but for completely different reasons.
DeleteI'm 90% sure that KatieGirl is pregnant in some trailer park right about now...
DeleteHowie, yes, wolfdream, no.
DeleteLike to add some lurker love for Wolfdreams. :)
DeleteIf there's something that important, and you don't mention it during two weeks of talking, and then mention it immediately when you're at dinner, then you wanted to make sure you got that free dinner.
ReplyDeleteFor a girl to show up to a date with no means to pay at ALL? She was after food.
Was he after sex? Sure, of course, but not right then. Arbitrary one year timeline has a pretty high chance of being a dealbreaker.. which she knew, of course, which is why it wasn't mentioned before. Team OP.
^ Yup.
Delete^ Yep.
Delete^Yip
Delete^ Yippie
DeleteMeckalecka high, Mecka hynie ho.
Deletewait, did I do it wrong?
C-C-C-C-C Combo BREAKER!
DeleteI'm also agreeing with OP...she sounds like she's playing games. And who wants to wait a year for some boring missionary sex with some woman whose head isn't screwed on right.
ReplyDeleteShe waited until dinner to spring her no sex for a year policy on him. At which time he should have let her know about his only splitting dinner checks for a year policy. Dinner wh0re gets what dinner wh0re deserves.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading the comments I have to change my mind that it now seems that date was most likely a dinner whOre,and a bad one at that or else she would not have mentioned that no sex for a year rule till after OP paid for dinner.I guess she was expecting her winning personality to win OP over...I still don't feel bad for either one but now think she is really the one at fault here.for some reason,it is something Op said that sill rubs me the wrong way but dinner hos have to go!
ReplyDeleteI agree OP came off as a jerk but he wasn't in the wrong with what he did either
DeleteI'm siding with the OP; his date's approach to the subject seemed childish and deliberately provocative. There was absolutely zero need to bring that up on a first date, unless he was trying to ravish her at the dinner table? Back when I was dating, if I saw a guy's ugly feet before I had the chance to get to know, like and lust him, those feet were a deal breaker. Don't present the ugly feet on a first date unless you know for a fact I want to see them. The OP's date not only showed him her ugly feet, she also flexed and curled her dirty toes up against his face.
ReplyDeleteI'm surprised so many think she should have mentioned her rule before meeting... personally, if I had a rule like that I'd wait a few dates before I brought it up. When/if sex will happen just doesn't seem like first date conversation. I agree with Lloyd, you bring up potential dealbreakers after getting to know each other a bit. That way they can weigh that negative thing against the good things they already like about you and see if it's worth it.
ReplyDeleteWould that not be wasting their time? I want to get married and if I'd been on a few dates with someone before they dropped the no-marriage bomb then I'd feel like they had lied to me.
DeleteAfter having a day to think it over (man I need a life), I think they were both pretty stupid to set these ridiculous ultimatums in the first place (Her: "I absolutely will not sleep with anyone for the first year." Him: "I absolutely will not pay for a dates's dinner unless she's willing to mess around with me.") I mean, how hard is it to start off the conversation with "I'd like to know your thoughts on sex in a relationship, if this is going to go anywhere. I have a rule about not messing around for the first year. How do you feel about that?" "Actually, that's kind of a deal breaker for me. Are you willing to reconsider your stance on that?" "No." "OK, I'm afraid we're not compatible. Let's split the check and just remain friends."
ReplyDeleteOf course, wouldn't be much of a story for ABCOTD.
Surely you're not going to bring up your need for marriage on the first date? That kind of information isn't required between two strangers. Because that's what you are on a first date; STRANGERS. Why not find out if you genuinely like the person first?? I always knew that kids were in my future; but did I feel the urge to disclose that to every guy I went out with, and on the first date? No way.
ReplyDeleteIf he mentions sex on the first date at all, it's pretty much a deal breaker anyway in my book, so I have a difficult time thinking of OP as anything but only after one thing. Yes, a year is definitely extreme, but it strikes me more as a reflex thing to blurt out to end the date and reveal what kind of person the date really is by their reaction. And so we saw - expectations about when fornicating will occur, man becomes angry enough about it to violate social norms, come off as a bit of a tool, and posts about it on the internet.
ReplyDeleteWhere exactly does he mention sex? Oh, right, after she mentioned that her policy is not to sleep with someone for a year. What do you expect him to do? She put that topic on the table and he's not allowed to ask her about it? Sounds strange to me
Delete