Story Sent in by Marshall:
On my third date with Tina, I took her out to a steakhouse for dinner. I had paid for meals the first couple of dates, and she hadn't bothered to offer to help. I would have refused it, but the offer would have been nice. It was a minor blip in an otherwise good time together, but it bugged me enough to suggest splitting the meal the third time around, after the check was on the table.
To that suggestion, she replied, "How much do you make?"
I said, "That's not really your concern."
"How much do you make?"
"So is that a no for splitting this?"
"It's a question: how much do you make? How much do you make?"
"Twelve dollars. Can we split this?"
"Well I make five dollars, so no."
"But I've already spent all twelve of my dollars on our first two meals."
She groaned. "Really? Then by 'splitting' you mean that you want me to pay for the whole thing. Is that it?"
Playing along, I replied, "I took out a loan to cover half of the meal. Are you going to split it with me or not?"
She said, "How much do you make? If you tell me, I'll split it with you."
"Split it with me and I'll tell you."
She made a fist. "See this? It'll be on your face in less than a second unless you tell me how much you make right now."
Still thinking that this was tense, but lighthearted, I cracked a smile. "Now you're threatening me with violence? I–"
She swung at me, and I dodged away, but not fast enough. Her knuckles clipped my nose, but didn't hurt me. Stunned, I watched as she drew her arm back across the table and breathed heavily, in and out like a marathon runner.
Just wanting the date to be over, I took the check from the table and told her that I'd be right back after squaring things up.
I found our waiter and handed him the empty check folio. I pointed in the direction of Tina's table and said to him, "Before we pay, she had some questions about the bill." He nodded and said he'd be back at our table shortly.
I then left. A torrent of angry, humiliated texts from Tina flowed steadily into my phone over the following couple of days. I had felt bad for the waiter, in case Tina didn't pay up, but I was able to infer from her texts that she did. Good.
You deserved each other.
ReplyDeleteI gave OP the benefit of the doubt until he started the drama. He was willing to stoop to what he correctly perceived to be her level. He should have paid and bolted. But he gets mad props for balls.
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DeleteI'm sorry, did you just say the OP should have paid? I hope this doesn't sound too rude, but what planet are you living on?
DeleteWhen a man pays for a date, he is entitled to certain expectations - NOT expectations of sex (I want to be very clear about that), but expectations that his date will be relatively courteous and considerate and is not just using him to get a free meal. Those expectations were utterly shattered when Tina took a swing at him.
If you bought a car that was an utter lemon, you (hopefully) wouldn't pay for it - you'd go to the seller and demand a refund. Why should you pay for a date that's a lemon? Tina clearly had significant emotional defects and didn't live up to any reasonable person's expectations, so it would be completely unfair to expect the OP to pay for such a crappy date.
While you can argue the dickiness of OP's move and whether it was justified, at least we can hope that Tina learned a lesson from her humiliation. Maybe NEXT time, she'll be a bit more fair/generous/modern when it comes time to settle up.
DeleteThis is how the dating pool corrects itself, much like the free-market economy... :-)
Amen, Steve. :-)
DeleteThe OP should have paid for the food he ate, then left. It's not cool to leave the restaurant on the hook. They didn't make him go on a date with Tina.
ReplyDeleteAlso, she probably didn't tip the server. :(
The OP is a wuss. Too scared to confront the date so he runs away. Not that Tina was right on what she did but the OP behavior is pathetic
ReplyDeleteUnlike wolfie, I don't care if this comes across as rude.
DeleteAm I crazy? Did I read a different story? He did confront her. She consequently attempted to inflict violence upon him simply because he suggested they split the bill. What was he supposed to do in retaliation so that he could be deemed a "man?" Hit her back? Doubtful.
Reverse the roles. If "he" swung at "her," and all she did was stick him with paying the bill, everyone on here would be up in arms (and likely rightly so, I might add) about her not doing more and calling the police on this barbarian.
While I do agree that he probably should have paid for what he ate, I'm still pretty ok with him sticking her with the bill.
I wouldn't say "pathetic" (that seems a bit far) but you raise a good point in that the OP definitely seemed to handle this oddly. Personally, if I were in his shoes, I would have just signalled the waiter over and said "Separate checks please." What's so hard about that?
DeleteI stand by my post, but this ^ is better. Only problem is she might pitch a fit and hose the restaurant.
DeleteI understand your car analogy, but OP wasn't paying for Tina to be a good date, he was paying for a meal. Since he invited her out on the assumption she would be good company, it was kinda trashy to "punish" her - especially since I strongly suspect that he knew she was a dinner whore before Date 3 and was looking for an excuse to dump her. If I'm right, that was a passive-aggressive move. He should have just stopped at 2 dates.
DeleteIf you're correct about that assumption (that he knew she was a dinner whore before Date 3 and was looking for an excuse to dump her) then I would agree with you... but I really don't see what evidence that assumption is grounded on. Maybe you follow your hunches (and you may even have a good instinct that justifies doing so) but I prefer empirical evidence in all things.
DeleteWoohoo! A dinner-wh0re story! Now my week is complete!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, I've dated too many girls like this in my younger days. They've never taken a swing at me, though... and I'd never walk away from a bill like that. I would have probably just paid and then written her off.
Ladies, it is usually a good idea to offer to split the bill. Even if he refuses, by the third date, you might want to INSIST on at least leaving the tip. I'm sure there are wackos out there they might feel emasculated by that, but the other 99% of us will feel really good about it. It sucks feeling used...
Another option might be for the lady to suggest a picnic date, and she brings the food.
Deleteyikes...i think they both suck. O_o her for being goddamn psycho and him for being a cheapskate. what kind of a man ASKS his date to split a check their third time out? i agree she should have offered but damn, you don't ask. if it bothers you that much, don't go out with her again. you better believe if a guy asked me to split the check on the 3rd date there wouldn't be a fourth!
ReplyDelete"what kind of a man ASKS his date to split a check their third time out?"
DeleteThe modern kind, the honest kind, the treats you as an equal not putting you on a pedestal kind.
The guy paying for the meal is not what makes them worthwhile to date, rather it is the company they make.
Amen, Ashley.
DeleteBlau, if he took you up on your "offer" on the third date, would there also not be a fourth?
I think that the degree of respect to which a man will generally treat a woman is equal to the relative difference between how he perceived her worth and his worth. For example, if the overall value of the man's desirable attributes is Y, and the overall value of the woman's desirable attributes is X, then he will treat her with (X-Y) units of respect.
DeleteIn other words, if you want a guy who worships you, always treats you to dinner, and makes you feel like you're the most special person in the world, you either need to date a complete loser, or you have to raise your own desirable characteristics to be well above the norms. Expecting that kind of treatment simply for having a vagina is both unfair and vaguely delusional.
no, if he took me up on my offer (and a few guys have, at least for the tip), i'd pay and that would be that. and also, my bf has spent the last 2 years treating me like the most special person in the world and pays for everything all the time, and trust me he's no loser. ;) i also treat him very well, and am supportive, kind, and non-crazy, which goes a long way in keeping a man happy!
DeleteI think I would start to feel a little used after two years of that. Some guys might like that kind of thing but to me it seems unbalanced, relationships are supposed to be equal (mutually supportive). You can be treated as a special wonderful person even if you pay for his coffee/dinner once in a while, try treating him like the most special person in the world sometimes.
Delete(Also I agree with your last point Wolfie)
I agree with Ashley. I don't want to critique your relationship, Blau, but it sounds like you're sort of using him. The terms you use to describe what you do for him "supportive, kind" are very nebulous and generally people use that kind of phrasing to avoid giving hard data. Maybe your boyfriend has low self-esteem, or maybe other girls just consider him ugly while you happen to have a few quirks that suit his fetishes. Maybe he's incredibly wealthy, and money isn't important for him so he doesn't think about it.
DeleteCan you be more specific about what your "support" and "kindness" consists of? What makes it so exemplary that he should pay for you all the time when (based on your claim of how alledgedly awesome he is) he could easily find another trophy girlfriend? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm legitimately curious.
Sorry, let me clarify my question blau - I can see how two years is a long time (and loyalty does mean a lot to most reasonable people), so it's unlikely that he would ditch you now for somebody else, even if he is getting the short end of the stick. My question is more directed towards when he STARTED dating you - if (as you claim) he's truly somebody that many other women would appreciate, what quantifiable benefits did you offer that would make him decide to pick you over them?
Deletetrophy girlfriend??? HAHAHAHA i guess you would have to know me irl to know how hilarious that is. :D i'm definitely not anyone's trophy gf! i'm a reasonably good catch (ok looking but not hot, above average intelligence, stable and much loved career) but i'm not anything super special! what sets me apart, honestly, i think, is that i'm pretty easy going, i'm not clingy, i'm independent, and i'm not ANY of the (usually correctly applied) stereotypes of bitchez be crazy. :P and he is, objectively, NOT ugly-i don't know how i can prove that other than showing a pic (which i won't do), but my friends have all confirmed that he's attractive. he was in the marines, has a degree from a good school, has a great job (downfall of it is is that he travels a lot), and is kind, loving, funny, and smart.
Deletewhat benefits do i offer? i don't really know. he loves me, we have a great time together and are very happy. i don't know if that's really quantifiable. i don't know why he loves me-why does anyone love anyone? we click really well; we have similar tastes, outlooks and senses of humor. we get along great and have a blast together. we're best friends. nothing is perfect, of course, but of the maybe 2-3 little spats we've gotten into, we've been able to rationally and respectfully work them out. within 3 months of dating he was telling me how special i am, and how different from any other woman he's dated. we just fit.
as far as ashley's comment-i do pay for things sometimes. for example, almost every 5k race we run, i pay for. i just took his car to get its oil changed and paid for that. i usually buy (and cook) everything we eat. etc. but on balance, i bet he easily spends 5x on me what i spend on him-NOT because i expect or even ask him to, but bc he seems to like buying me stuff (clothes, jewelry, he even put the down payment on my new car). in return, he gets a gf who doesn't nag him, doesn't whine, conducts herself in a respectable manner, does her own thing and with whom he adores spending time. he makes enough money to be comfortable and be able to buy most of the stuff he wants, so why not?
now getting back to the date-i'm sorry, i just don't think it's appropriate for someone to ASK someone else to split a check on the 3rd date. it's too early. once you've been dating a few months and are an established couple and have started to talk about money stuff, sure, mention that she might want to let the moths in her wallet out for a breath of fresh air. :P but to me, that would just be a big turn off.
I'm not sure that would be a good idea most of the time Blau. Take the date in this story for example, if he had asked two or three months down the line and she acted like this, that is a LOT of money and time wasted on some crazy selfish girl.
DeletePersonally I don't mind paying for my dates, I even like doing it, but if the girl took it as granted and openly expected it then I would not be calling them for another date.
Thinking about it, why should the guy pay all the time, I mean the first one or two dates I would accept but after that... it starts to feel like he's paying for the company of the date when in reality they're both taking enjoyment out of the others company so why shouldn't they both put something towards it?
I'm not saying split cheques all the time, it's nice to be treated once in a while but if your biggest interest in your date is whether or not he pays the bill it doesn't bode well.
TL;DR: It's not about being paid for, it's about having a good time with someone you like and likes you back.
"f he had asked two or three months down the line and she acted like this, that is a LOT of money and time wasted on some crazy selfish girl."
Deletehmm that's a good point i hadn't thought of! i guess the way around that would be to see if she ever once offers to pay anything. if you go out 3, 4, 5 times and she never offers, then you can ditch her (or maybe say something about it during conversation or sneak it in somehow, if you like her a lot otherwise). i just can't get past someone blatantly asking someone else to split a check like that. just leaves a bad taste in my mouth, as it were.
"Thinking about it, why should the guy pay all the time, I mean the first one or two dates I would accept but after that... it starts to feel like he's paying for the company of the date when in reality they're both taking enjoyment out of the others company so why shouldn't they both put something towards it?"
to this i would say it really depends on the relationship. ie, two of the above-mentioned bf's i've had were bigwig dr's making well into the 6 figures. i'm a professional, but in a relatively low paying profession (esp for what we do, but we won't go there on this thread :P). i never once even offered to pay for anything whilst dating those men. knowing both of them as i do, i think they would have been MORE insulted had i offered. it was never even an issue. i'm trying to think back if i ever paid for anything, even a pizza, and i honestly don't think i did, and i never questioned it. they made 6x what i make so they would never have expected me to pay.
thinking about this whole issue (bc it's really on my mind now-it's not something i've ever really thought about before, never had to i guess) even from the perspective of my family-there are 4 kids in my family. we all went to college, but one chose to go into a profession that is very highly paid and he makes a ton of money. now whenever any of us go out, he pays. he wouldn't dream of asking one of us to pay-why would he? he has the money. he's even paid for my parents before (over their strenuous objection!). he paid for my entire surprised bday party recently, to which dozens of people were invited. i could never do that for him, but it's not about the money to him because he HAS so much of it that it doesn't matter. he just wanted to do something nice for me.
blau, your attitude rocks.
DeleteI guess that's fine, if he insists and you don't feel ENTITLED to it. Since you seem to enjoy thinking about it, though, let me ask you a follow-up question: suppose your boyfriend turned to you one day after dinner and said "You take my paying for you for granted. I want you to start going dutch with me from now on." What would you do?
Deletei'd be surprised and wonder if someone had spiked his drink, but ok...whatever. we're at the point in our relationship where we can, i think, comfortably talk about something like that. we know each other, and have talked about everything else, so why not. :P i make enough to support myself and buy my own dinners, so if he wanted to go dutch or for me to pay, i'd be fine with that.
DeleteTeam OP all the way. As a full-time student, I'm poor, but I never expect a guy to pay for me no matter how much he makes. Not only did she expect it from him, she threw a hissy fit at the mere suggestion of splitting it this one time, demanded to know his salary as justification for making him pay, and freaking HIT HIM IN THE FACE. If it were the first date, I'd say pay for what you ate, but seeing as how he had already paid for two dinners and was verbally and physically attacked as thanks, I think he's perfectly justified in sticking her with the bill.
ReplyDeletei want to date bri.
DeleteWatch how a person treats waitstaff to see what kind of person he or she is. OP's not quite batting a thousand sticking the waiter like that.
ReplyDeleteI'm with the commenters that say she deserved what she got. It was the least he could have done after she took a swing at him and acting so entitled.
ReplyDeleteI don't think he was being a wuss, I think he was washing his hands of her and giving her a little of what she deserved.
I can't imagine even attempted physical assault even if I thought a date was being rude. I dated several men who paid for everything. I didn't ask them to and would offer to cook instead, I was a single mom making barely enough to live on, but they never had a problem with paying. I, in turn, would try to do nice things and was always sure to be good company, even on bad days. It was the least I could do.
ReplyDelete